Episode 122

Disciple Up #122
When Someone Leaves the Faith
By Louie Marsh, 8-21-2019

Recent “High Profile” Christian leaders have either abandoned the faith or nearly so. Marty Sampson and Josh Harris are two of them.

John L. Cooper(lead singer of Skillet) FaceBook post on this: https://www.facebook.com/johnlcooperstuff/photos/a.2899206263638620/2899204140305499/?type=3&theater

John L Cooper’s “Rant” Edited

 Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once “faces” of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?) as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

My conclusion for the church: We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or “relevant” people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word.

I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers…first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.” I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

My second thought is, why do people act like “being real” covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying “I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.” So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that “no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.” This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, “How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.” As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their “new insight/new truth” that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say “I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others”. Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers…I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)

 CT Article: https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2019/august/leaving-faith-by-losing-focus-part-1.html

How Should We React When People We Know Do This.

 1) Stay calm, do NOT overreact and get in their face.

 2) Pray immediately. For them and for yourself and what you should do about this. Don’t spread it around, take it to God.

 Check yourself and make sure you are standing strong.

 1  Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2  Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:1-2 (ESV)

 3) When you talk to them the most important thing is to try and get to REAL root of the problem. This usually isn’t what they’ll tell you at first. In my experience it’s often tied to personal pain or betrayal inflicted on them by a Christian. Or it’s a tough time and God hasn’t answered their prayers they way they wanted Him too.

4) Ask lots of question and actually LISTEN! Be like Jesus who did exactly the same thing.

5) Reaffirm your love for and friendship with them. Be in this for the long haul if that’s what it takes. Don’t reject them just because they are, or think they are, rejecting the Lord.

6) Main question – where’s Jesus in all this? Often this will bring them to realize this is more of a rejection of the church or other believers than it is a rejection of God or Jesus.

7) Ask them if you can pray for them when talking to them, and tell them you are going to pray for them privately.

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Episode 47

Disciple Up # 47
Transparent Discipleship
By Louie Marsh, 3-14-2018

What’s coming up –

48 – 3-21-The Cruel Curse of Christian Clichés

49 – 3-28- Tales From the Scrypt – The Easter Story

55 – 5-9- 1st Anniversary!

Don’t know what I’ll do – if you want to say anything about the impact of this podcast on your life in it’s first year e-mail, put it on FaceBook, etc.

My book Getting Real is all about this – from the Psalms which is if not the most then one of the most real books in the Bible.

The Disciple Up Low Down on the Importance of Transparency

Biblical Basis for Transparency

Throughout the Bible, the heroes of faith are presented as men subject to like passions as we are (Jas. 5:17) with strengths and weaknesses. For example, it not only portrays Abraham as a friend of God but also as a liar who jeopardized his wife’s virtue.

  1. The Lord Jesus

2) The Psalms – as real as you can get!

Hindrances to Transparency

There is a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) transparency about the characters in the Bible. But many of us go around wearing a mask. Why are we afraid to let others know who we really are?

We are afraid to be transparent because we fear others may not like what they see and reject us. Worse, your words or actions may be misinterpreted and gossip, like wild fire, may spread to many others. Another hindrance to transparency is the “living by faith” extreme of denying our feeling.

Therefore, we put up this “I-Must-Always-Be-Strong” facade such that nothing can go out and nothing can come in. It becomes impossible to “connect” (build close relationships) with others.

Quotes:

Jennie Allen

“We are all hiding from each other with big fig leaves, but God says, “You could stop because I am a way better covering. I have an actual payment for all the sin you are hiding. But it will take coming out from behind your leaves. It will take humility to see that you need me”

Joni Eareckson Tada

Gut-wrenching questions honor God. Despair directed at God is a way of encountering him, opening ourselves up to the One and only Someone who can actually do something about our plight.

Madeleine L’Engle

When we were children, we used to think that when we were grown-up we would no longer be vulnerable. But to grow up is to accept vulnerability… To be alive is to be vulnerable.

Henri J.M. Nouwen

I always try to turn my personal struggles into something helpful for others.

Henri J. M. Nouwen

Maybe we wonder if God can take all that goes on in our mind and heart. Maybe we simply want to hold on to our own pleasurable imaginings, afraid that in showing them to our Lord, we may have to give them up. Thus, we are constantly tempted to fall back…out of fear or out of greed, and to keep from our God what often is the most in need of His healing touch.

Juliana of Norwich

It is very great pleasure to [Christ] when a simple soul comes to him nakedly, plainly and unpretentiously.

How To Build A Foundation For Transparency

  1. We cannot hide anything from God  You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Psa 139:3
  2. We can tell God anything and everything.

1  How long, O LORD? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? 2  How long must I take counsel in my soul and have sorrow in my heart all the day? How long shall my enemy be exalted over me? 3  Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death, Psalm 13:1-3 (ESV)

Paul was not afraid to allow others to see him as he was.  15  The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. 16  But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. 17  To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:15-17 (ESV)

Benefits of Transparency

  1. People will see you as a real human being.
  2. Your transparency lets people into you life and creates a real healthy relationship.
  3. Transparency creates transparency. It will draw your disciples out to reveal their hearts to you. This in turn will enable you to know where the applications of God’s word are to be made in their lives.
  4. Your transparency gives others the freedom to hurt, permission to fail, and the confidence to  trust in the Grace of God

 Potential Problems with Transparency

  1. To be transparent isn’t telling everyone everything about everything.
    29  Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29 (ESV)

6  Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. Colossians 4:6 (ESV)

    1. Don’t harm people by sharing things they can’t handle and will hurt them.
    2. Always make sure whatever you say that you point people to Christ.

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