Episode 299-Rethinking the Quiet Time

Disciple Up # 299
Rethinking the Quiet Time
By Louie Marsh, 3-22-2023

Intro. Sorry for mix up and briefly posting Sunday’s sermon on this feed! State of the podcast, what about next week? We’re hitting number 300! That’s quite a run. What would you like to hear on that one?

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2023/april/quit-quiet-time-devotions-bible-literacy-reading-scripture.html

Is It Time to Quit ‘Quiet Time’?

Effective biblical engagement must be about more than one’s personal experience with Scripture.

DRU JOHNSON AND CELINA DURGIN

MARCH 13, 2023

I began to realize that their poor grasp of Scripture wasn’t necessarily due to a lack of reading, although that’s also a large problem in the US. From 2021 to 2022, Bible engagement—scored on frequency of use, spiritual impact, and moral importance in day-to-day life—fell 21 percent among American adult Bible users. It was the American Bible Society’s largest recorded one-year drop in its annual State of the Bible study. And almost 1 in 5 churchgoers said they never read the Bible.

But for my students, many of whom read the Bible daily and have chosen to attend a Christian college, their poor grasp on and application of Scripture seems to be due to the way they engage with it. It is a way many American Christians have been reading the Bible for decades: through “daily devotions” or “quiet time.”

The way daily quiet time is typically practiced today is unlikely to yield the fluency required to understand and apply biblical teaching. Only when devotional time is situated within a matrix of Scripture study habits can it regain its power to transform our thinking and our communities.

How could my students be reading the Bible so much yet have so little understanding of the Torah, pay almost no attention to its focus on the new heavens and new earth, and be confused over concepts like salvation and evil? CT previously discussed the Lifeway Research statistics that reveal this trend of Bible illiteracy among the wider population. Their daily devotion to Scripture seemed to distance them from understanding key parts of it.

My students were not Bible literate. They didn’t really know the stories, characters, ideas, and themes in the Bible, much less how the literature itself fits together and argues for a particular view of the world. And as Christians, we must aim beyond basic literacy. We hope to know and practice the thinking and instruction of Scripture fluently, extending its wisdom into all the areas of life that it doesn’t directly address.

Johnson traces the modern practice of quiet time to the 1870s, when American evangelicals merged two previously separate Puritan devotional practices: private prayer and private Bible study. This fusion of prayer and Bible study morphed into “morning watch,” which emphasized intercessory prayer. From there it became “quiet time,” which deemphasized intercessory prayer in favor of quiet listening or meditation. This new emphasis on individuals receiving daily insights from God transformed the nature of the Bible engagement taught to generations of American Christians.

Daily devotions have been characteristically solitary and have not usually involved rigorous study of Scripture. Instead, readers often focus on one chapter or even a few verses per session, from which they may expect to receive God’s guidance for their personal life in that moment. Daily devotions typically include a period of prayerful “listening” for God’s voice, which is believed to manifest either in the verses read that session or via direct communication to the mind of the listener.

Though this listening may be expectant, it is essentially passive. It’s often guided by a tacit belief that God’s Word speaks and transforms through sudden insights directed at individual readers, rather than through sustained study and active questioning in community.

In contrast to sermons and group Bible study, daily devotions became exercises in inward, individual formation, sharing tendencies with the secular modernism of the era. Quiet-time advocates began identifying the main benefit of daily devotions as “a transformed self rather than a transformed world,” Johnson writes in his dissertation.

While personal character formation is essential, in isolation it aligns better with modernist tendencies than with the biblical focus on character formation through habits, rituals, and guidance from the community. This inward focus can also cast the formation of justice in communities and systems—a primary concern of the biblical authors—as adhering to individualistic ethical principles.

Today, daily quiet time often doesn’t involve Scripture at all. As CT has noted elsewhere, 2023 Lifeway Research revealed that although 65 percent of Protestant churchgoers spend time alone with God daily, only 39 percent read the Bible during that time. If this statistic means that Christians are trading hurried and fragmented devotional reading for holistic group Bible study, then perhaps so much the better. But the drop in overall Bible engagement in the ABS study suggests that more Christians simply aren’t reading it.

The danger is clear: Listening for God’s insights from Scripture and in prayer without communal accountability can produce a tenuous understanding of Christianity.

If Bible literacy is declining, even for those who read devotionally every day, then what is the way forward? Most of the parachurch ministries we talked to reported that they have been considering methods that provide a wider perspective of Scripture. These include ancient Scripture reading rituals that many evangelical churches have rarely practiced (such as lectio divina, the Daily Office from The Book of Common Prayer, and so on). But the practice most mentioned by ministry leaders was the public, or communal, reading of Scripture.

In some ways, this form of Bible engagement is the opposite of quiet time. Rather than reading, communities listen to long stretches of Scripture together—sometimes 30 minutes to an hour long—either using audio Bibles or having people read aloud. Bible professors have long noted that the natural habitat of Scripture is in the ears of gathered Christians, not the eyes of individuals. The effects of long-form Scripture engagement on Bible literacy are all anecdotal at this point.

From Moses to Josiah to Nehemiah, communal Bible reading was normal at key points of Israel’s history. Public reading of Scripture occurs at Sinai (Ex. 19:7), during Josiah’s reforms (2 Kings 23:1–2), and for all the returnees to Judah in Ezra’s day (Neh. 8), among other instances. And the synagogue practice of reading the Torah and Prophets every Sabbath (Luke 4:16–17; Acts 13:14–15) emerged around the third century prior to Jesus.

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Episode 286-Positive & Negative Energy

Disciple Up # 286
Positive & Negative Energy
By Louie Marsh, 11-29-2022

Dear Louie Marsh,

My name is Xavier. I am emailing you as I been meaning to bounce some ideas off you and wanting to hear some truth and depth to them. First, I apologize for how long it took to get this going as I am a double major student, step-father/father (however you want to put it haha), and I am playing basketball professionally in Armenia away from my family. I listen to your podcast when I feel I need encouragement or guidance. Recently though I been finding myself more in tune with who I am needed to become and willing to accept the challenges. I am 28 years old and excited with my journey in the Lord so far.

My subject title “Positive and Negative” came a few months back when I was with my sister in law and heard she doesn’t believe in negative energy or negative forces but says positive energy is real. She isn’t one to believe in the Word. But she isn’t one to just ignore it. I feel that the childhood her and my wife were brought into was a blinded truth and left in darkness. I have been working with my wife on her own discipleship but this is besides the point haha.

Anyway, I am curious, what is there that proves negative energy/forces do exist? Where am I able to show this? Explain more in depth how they work. In a sense of how one knows it’s a positive or negative influence upon them. I have tried to show with actions and not words as this side of the family is much more about the actions. But I believe if having words with my actions align then the course of light will dim on them more and allow them to find a truth by following the light.

I believe, after just listening to your stewardship part 5 on children, ministry, and weakness, that my gift is to help with action. I am a huge go getter in terms of achieving. I have had many downfalls but I’ve had many successions. For one addiction. Two being patient. These are just a couple of downfalls I have very strongly yet lead to even greater achievements. Which aren’t even my accolades.

I hope this is something you’re willing to share and talk about. I apologize again for my long await and for the word email.

Feel free to email me and just know I’m always listening!

Peace be with you.

Thank you,

Dear Xavier,

Thanks so much for writing – twice in one week! That’s a big encouragement! Oh, by the way, this is my personal email address. It’s just easier to answer from here so that’s what I usually do.

Sorry it’s taking me so long to get back to you but things around here are keeping me busy. As a Father, husband and basketball player I’m sure you know all about that. So this e-mail will just focus on your question about positive and negative energy and I’ll cover some of the rest in another one. I’m also thinking about making this a subject of a podcast soon.

You asked: “Anyway, I am curious, what is there that proves negative energy/forces do exist? Where am I able to show this? Explain more in depth how they work. In a sense of how one knows it’s a positive or negative influence upon them. I have tried to show with actions and not words as this side of the family is much more about the actions. But I believe if having words with my actions align then the course of light will dim on them more and allow them to find a truth by following the light.”

Notice I put parts of what you wrote in bold, because you are really asking two (at least) different questions here. The first one is does positive or negative energy exist? That’s a good question since so many people just assume they do in fact exist. When you talk to them about it they’ll reference times when they felt positive or negative energy from someone or something as proof of this. But is it true?

My answer is a hard no. There’s nothing in the Bible nor science to prove or even suggest that people can somehow transmit any kind of energy between us. You’ll notice that unlike our current culture the Bible doesn’t talk about positive or negative at all. The Bible focuses us on what’s true and false. This is critical because the truth can often feel (and even be) negative, while what’s false often feels very, very good, at least at first (ask anyone addicted to anything).

So how do we explain these feelings? For example when you stand up before a crowd to perform, as you do in basketball and I work before crowds when I speak, you often feel approval and support, or disapproval and a lack of support. Many people will say that’s positive or negative energy that’s being transmitted to them. Many musicians often say they are carried along by the positive energy of their audience, or they can be brought down by the negative energy they feel.

So what’s happening if science and the Bible are right and there’s no energy moving around here? It’s very simple actually. You can get a good reading on whether or not the people in the audience are in favor of you or not by their body language and what they say of course. Then you react to this and if you’re feeling support that opens up your adrenal glands and you feel that sudden surge of energy. If you were receiving other people’s energy you wouldn’t feel so drained after a performance. But most of the time we do because we are drawing upon our adrenal reserves and once those are exhausted we need rest.

There’s no positive or negative energy involved at all. Just the human reaction to being supported or not supported. It’s really quite simple when you look at it from a factual point of view.

Now that doesn’t mean you can’t and shouldn’t be a good influence on others (your second question). I do want to be a good witness to others and to be as supportive of them as I can be. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if I’m succeeding at that or not. I think the best way to know for sure is to either watch them closely and see how they respond to your efforts or just ask them! That way you’ll know for sure what they think.

So I hope this has helped you a bit. Let me know if I’ve missed the point or have been unclear. I’d like to know what you think of all this.

God bless you and keep on walking with Jesus!

but test everything; hold fast what is good. – 1 Thess. 5:21

 

Episode 247

Disciple Up # 247
The Passion Translation – Translation, paraphrase or…?
By Louie Marsh

Intro.

I’m not a Bible translator, or a Greek or Hebrew scholar, but I am a Bible teacher with nearly 50 years of experience and when things like this appear they need to be spoken on. My goal isn’t to attack anyone and that includes the people involved with the Passion Translation.

Links to websites used in this episode:

 Examples of Too Many Words AND Continual Improvements

 PHILIPPIANS 1:1-2:

1Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons: 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Philippians 1:1–2, ESV)

 

TPT (2016)  “My name is Paul and I’m joined by my spiritual son Timothy, both of us passionate servants of Jesus, the Anointed One. We decree over your lives the blessings of divine grace and supernatural peace.”

 

TPT (2022) 1From Paul and Timothy, both of us servants of Jesus, the Anointed One. To all his devoted followers in Philippi, including your pastors, and to all the servant-leaders of the church. 2May the blessings of divine grace and supernatural peace that flow from God our wonderful Father, and our Messiah, the Lord Jesus, be upon your lives.

GALATIANS 2:19:

19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.” (Galatians 2:19, ESV)

 

TPT (22016) “so that I can live for God in heaven’s freedom

 

TPT (2022) 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.

Examples of Adding Words & Phrases to the Text:

THE LORD’S PRAYER IN LUKE:

ESV Translation: 1Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” 2And he said to them, “When you pray, say: “Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. 3Give us each day our daily bread, 4and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”” (Luke 11:1–4, ESV)

 

TPT (2022) 1One day, as Jesus was in prayer, one of his disciples came over to him as he finished and said, “Would you teach us a model prayer that we can pray, just as John did for his disciples?”

2So Jesus taught them this prayer: “Our heavenly Father, may the glory of your name be the center on which our life turns.  May your Holy Spirit come upon us and cleanse us.  Manifest your kingdom on earth. 3And give us our needed bread for the coming day.  4Forgive our sins as we ourselves release forgiveness to those who have wronged us. And rescue us every time we face tribulations.”

TBT (2022) Lord’s Prayer In Matthew: 9Pray like this: ‘Our Beloved Father, dwelling in the heavenly realms, may the glory of your name be the center on which our lives turn10Manifest your kingdom realm, and cause your every purpose to be fulfilled on earth, just as it is in heaven. 11We acknowledge you as our Provider of all we need each day. 12Forgive us the wrongs we have done as we ourselves release forgiveness to those who have wronged us. 13Rescue us every time we face tribulation and set us free from evil. For you are the King who rules with power and glory forever. Amen.’

The Deeper Issue with this “translation”

It focuses the reader upon themselves rather than on God. The first part of the Lord’s prayer is all about focusing on God. This model prayer of Jesus teaches us to focus on God first – not ourselves. Yet the Passion Translation turns our attention immediately to ourselves with the Holy Spirit line.

So not only is there NOTHING about the Holy Spirit in the text – his choice to add to the Lord’s prayer derails what Jesus is trying to do with it! So we end up doing the exact opposite of what Jesus is leading us to do!

All translations struggle with being produced in a particular time and place. Your culture does impact how you translate things. The job of a good translator – and good Bible Teachers as well for that matter – is to minimize the impact.

Here we see the Passion Translation being as modern as you can get. It seems determined to get me and myself and my problems and my ego into view as often as possible. Even when the sinless and perfect Son of God make sure to exclude those!

Jesus is trying to get us to see that one of the first things prayer should do is to pull us out of ourselves and remind us how glorious, holy, perfect and pure God really is. Then, once I’ve got my eyes focused on Jesus again, once I can begin to see things from God’s perspective, then and only then do I bring my needs to my Father.

This translation destroys that and it does it by adding to the text while changing the focus of the passage. It actually perverts Jesus intention in saying this.

The Bottom Line:

1) It’s a paraphrase, not a translation, and that’s what it should be called.

2) The misuse of the Syriac Aramaic translation must be abandoned and corrected.

3) The practice of inserting entire phrases and sentences into the text must cease and be corrected.

If these things are not done then this so-called translation which is really a paraphrase, should be avoided by all who seriously seek to honor, understand and practice God’s Word.

Please Get In Touch!

Email – louie@discipleup.org

 


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Episode 219

Disciple Up # 219
Is a Literal Translation Always Better?
By Louie Marsh, 7-14-2021

Article Read From: https://www.christianitytoday.com/partners/creative-studio/more-literal-than-thou.html

Legacy Standard Bible;  https://lsbible.org/

The Legacy Standard Bible has an app for both Apple and Android with as much of the Bible as they’ve completed available to read if you’d like to check that out go the store and type in “Legacy Bible app” and it should pop up.

The Literal Version: https://www.lsvbible.com/

My personal favorite translations:

ESV

The NIV and NASB are also good.

The NLT is good for people who don’t read well.

Won’t know about the LSB till it’s all out and I have chance to check it out.

What about the KJV?

If you had the perfect translation and you have a poor reader who can’t read it and so gives up. What good is it then?

What place should readability have in a translation?

Can you over do it on one translation?

As you read it in a different, because the word order is different, and different words are used, you’re going to see things that you missed before.

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Email – louie@discipleup.org

 


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Episode 209

Disciple Up # 209
Wrestling with Scripture
By Louie Marsh, 5-5-2021

 Intro. Excerpts from the article I’m discussing today, with a link to it below. Also some links to John Stott’s books are below as well. 

John Stott Would Want Us to Stop, Study, and Struggle

JOHN W. YATES III

APRIL 26, 2021

It was a bitterly cold January afternoon and rain was pinging sideways off the windows when John Stott emerged from his study. It was teatime, and a large pot was brewing on the small counter of the kitchenette of The Hermitage, Uncle John’s cozy living quarters in one of the old farm buildings at the Hookses, his rural retreat in Wales.

“Oh JY,” John said to me, wearily, rubbing his temples, “I have a terrible case of PIM.” His acronym stood for pain in the mind. It was his way of describing what it felt like to wrestle over a difficult writing project or a seemingly intractable problem, and it was a phrase I knew well after 18 months working as John’s study assistant.

Over tea, we discussed the progress he had made that day and the state of my research on the chapter he would tackle the following day. We also indulged in shortbread cookies (which were known to be an effective treatment for PIM). As he rose to return to work, he patted down the white tufts of hair he had disturbed at his temples and said.

“JY, there are certain tasks which cannot be done without acute pain in the mind. They are rarely fun, but always worthwhile.”

Another favorite acronym of John’s was BBC. He took delight in explaining that this did not stand for the British Broadcasting Corporation, but rather for balanced biblical Christianity. John was not afraid of taking an unpopular stance if Scripture required it. But he never rushed into an opinion. In his quest for a balanced and biblical Christianity, he worked tirelessly to understand every perspective on a topic before coming to a carefully considered judgment rooted in Scripture.

In an age of sound bites and Twitter feeds, many Christian leaders are so busy trying to keep up with current events that few of us take time to stop, to study, and to struggle for the sake of teaching God’s people. All too often, we take a side and stick to it without the discipline of listening or questioning our instincts. The thin veneer of our discipleship is showing cracks as a result.

In this complex and constantly changing world, we do not need more commentary. We need more pain in the mind. John was willing to endure this pain, not just in the quiet of his study, but also in the company of others. He understood that the work of preaching and teaching requires the steadfast suffering of careful thinking.

John Yates is the rector of Holy Trinity Anglican Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. He served as John Stott’s study assistant from 1996 to 1999

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/april-web-only/john-stott-100-pain-in-mind-balanced-biblical-christianity.html

Some Books By John Stott

The Cross of Christ:

https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Christ-John-Stott/dp/083083320X/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=John+Stott&qid=1620083222&sr=8-2

The Message of the Sermon on the Mount:

https://www.amazon.com/Message-Sermon-Mount-Bible-Speaks/dp/0830824235/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=John+Stott&qid=1620083268&sr=8-10

Your Mind Matters:

https://www.amazon.com/Your-Mind-Matters-Christian-Classics/dp/0830834087/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=John+Stott&qid=1620083268&sr=8-18

Between Two Worlds: (excellent book on how to preach)

https://www.amazon.com/Between-Two-Worlds-John-Stott/dp/0802875521/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=John+Stott&qid=1620083268&sr=8-13